Thar Shaddin

Especially since we have a lawyer here now, I want to be sure everyone is clear on this:

This website and everything in it is public domain. That means when you put something up here, it belongs to everyone so to speak. I will personally chastise anyone who rips you off without at least giving credit, but I don't claim personal ownership of any ideas regarding the world design or the people in it. There will be no suing people for using your character in their own stories, even if they make a million billion dollars off of it. Mmmkay?

I like this world, and we get good authors here, and I like the idea that someone (maybe even me if I learn to write) might publish a novel about it. Hopefully they make a million billion dollars off of that novel. Hopefully they share some (I expect they would) with the community but that's their choice.

At the bottom of the rules page there's a little bit on copyrights that right now says not a whole lot other than 'please give credit'. This, like so much, needs updating. People who've been here a while know this policy already so this is for anyone who doesn't.

If you want your character protected somehow, you're going to have to say so explicitly here, but I really want to urge the whole "anything goes with this stuff" policy so that when I make a feature length movie and make ten million billion dollars off of that, I don't have to give you people any of it.

Of course, you're free to do the same if you can make the movie faster than me.

I hearby relinquish any copywrite of Aislinn, and any RP's or storylines connected to her. Everything I post in the world of Thar Shaddin is a free for all.

What inspired this clarification Frug? Was it having a lawyer here, or all the authors the site is attracting?

On a side note, does this apply for the things posted in Creative Commons? Because technically, that's not the world of Thar, that's original works in the public domain, right?

I dunno. I hate legalities which is why I say this stuff. Don't be afraid to say something along the lines of "that's a really bad idea because ______"

We can exclude things posted in creative commons. That's actually a really good idea.

This could get ugly for two reasons. A) People might be afraid you are trying to steal their material, and when that happens people can go crazy. I've seen it both at other forums and in person. NOT pretty. B) a lot of the people in the community here seem to have the intent to publish or are even professional authors, and therefore may start only putting up lesser material, which they don't wish to use. ie: quality reduction of the sight. I am fine with it, mainly because I would never post anything I intend to publish, since most publishers would then consider it already published for free, and also I use this sight to relax from my projects for publishing. Just some thoughts though.

People might be afraid you are trying to steal their material

That has occurred to me. Part of the reason why I think it's necessary to bring this up again is so that this stuff doesn't happen later, when it's too late. I have also seen things get a little ugly over such issues. I've never seen any legal action taken, but I'm sure that's a possibility.

The whole 'public domain, use it how you want' thing has always been good enough for me but I know that other people cherish their characters and it's a contentious issue. I would like nothing more than to see my ideas appear somewhere with exposure. I consider it flattery... But I'm also not a 'real' writer.

Maybe it should be forbidden to use this stuff elsewhere without permission of all the parties involved, but that could really get in the way if someone wants to do something cool with the ideas. The last thing I need is someone flipping because their character gets mentioned somewhere else and they claim intellectual property rights over it.

I'm open to suggestions for a suitable compromise.

Something like this arose at another site where I was a member. The stories were written in a shared world, so there was often an overlap of characters or places. When someone offered to pay me for a story I'd been writing there, I got in touch with the two people whose characters I'd used in it, and asked them what they thought was fair. They were both pretty cool about it. They asked that I change the character's names, and a few minor personal details, but nothing too difficult. And they both wished me the best of luck.

Of course, this assumes that you're actually able to get in touch with the character's creators. People online can vanish into thin air pretty easily. Also, it's worth mentioning that I later had a falling out with one of those people over a completely different issue, and she responded by pitching a fit and demanding that I remove all traces of her character from my story. Be aware that using someone else's character can make you a prisoner of their whims.

I think the best way to handle it is just to have everyone make their wishes clear. Have a thread (perhaps this one) where people say what they consider to be fair use for their character. And if you want to get hardcore, you could always change the registration process to include signing a statement where the author agrees that any writing they do at Thar Shaddin is public domain. I don't think this would lead to second rate material. I don't plan on ever trying to publish anything I write here, but I still do the best I can with every post.

And for the record, I would be truly flattered if anyone ever decided to include Julen in any creative project they decided to embark on.

Of course, this assumes that you're actually able to get in touch with the character's creators.

That being the main issue really.

Changing names may not be enough. Someone can always raise some hell over the fact that a character is based on something they wrote, even if the name is changed. Still, perhaps that's better than nothing if I add something along the lines of "if we can't contact you, we'll change your character's name."

I think the best way to handle it is just to have everyone make their wishes clear. Have a thread (perhaps this one) where people say what they consider to be fair use for their character.

Or have it put explicitly in everyone's profile.

...you could always change the registration process to include signing a statement where the author agrees that any writing they do at Thar Shaddin is public domain.

I can add it fairly easily to the terms that appear on registration. I hate those terms though, because even with my modified READ THIS version, few people read them. (check it out if you didn't )

I don't think this would lead to second rate material.

Nor do I. I think it's sort of all-or-none with people for the most part.

Put it somewhere publically/obviously (say in the Rules section) that anything posted here is public unless somehow specified otherwise.

I'll definately think of making a novel set in Thar Shaddin.

Yep yep, it's all public domain except what's noted. That being said, I'll be the first to note that my girls are NOT public domain, and someone must contact me for permission to use any of them. I'd be seriously pissed if I ever saw someone using Anga and I had no knowledge of it.

I'll edit my profiles to reflect this, too. I'm attached to my work, I shan't lie!

I'm not sure how I'd feel if someone used my characters in their stories without permission. I know next to nothing about legal stuff but I probably wouldn't mind unless they used the name but did the character wrong. I think I need to say you cannot use Asiona and Lateus because I'm planning on including them in a book that I hope to publish. Ryxa and Coinneach are fair game, though, I suppose.

I would be weirded out if I saw my characters in other places and didn't expect it.

On further thought and based on responses here, the policy is obviously gonna have to change.

I guess nothing can be perfect, so the default will have to be something like "you must have consent prior to using someone's characters or ideas unless otherwise specified in their character's bio." It'll still be problematic if/when someone decides to make an issue of it, but I fear public domain just isn't the right way in the end.

I have had people ask me to use their characters in my novels, that doesn't mean i will though. I am not one to use other peoples creations, my characters are woven into my plot so intricately and purposefully dropping another character not of my creation into the middle of the story would not be feasible, or natural. I do not care what people do with my characters outside my board, so yeah....

I agree with changing the policy because then I won't have to edit all of my posts. And I am very lazy!

I'm not particularly partial to any of my characters, except perhaps Kamar, but I'd still like someone to approach me AT THE LEAST before throwing him or Mav or any other character into a story. I don't think I'd freak out, per se, but I probably would be a little upset.

That being said, you could also have a small, one line notation in italics at the top of every web page (if that's not too hard) that states that all writings and characters are solely or original copywritten works or intellectual properties (pick one) of their respective writers. You'll have to get someone else to hash out the legal-ese.

That being said, it's hard to tell when someone is using your character and just changing the name in a story. I've read different authors' works and come across very striking similarities between storylines or characters, etc. Sometimes ideas or writings are just plain similar, through no active intention on the part of either author.

Ok, my two cents is up. Thanks for your time.

Kamar Deythal wrote:you could also have a small, one line notation in italics at the top of every web page (if that's not too hard) that states that all writings and characters are solely or original copywritten works or intellectual properties (pick one) of their respective writers.

It's always been at the bottom of every page. Though not in italics. The top would clutter the look of the site and you know me o.O