The Dar

[Brokk]

Ok, this is largely a place holder until I can get the rest of what I have in place but the general idea is that there are three related races that showed up on the continent not long after the Changer's War.

Dar-Ohk - Ram headed humanoids that live in tribal strongholds in the north and in the mountains. They're a fiercely proud meritocracy that often come into conflict with established colonies, who have mistaken their martial ways for deliberate belligerence. Many have difficulty articulating themselves accurately in the common tongues, so they are often mistaken for dull witted, but are anything but. They tend to be very direct in their dealings and do not handle subtleties or metaphors very well. Disagreements are generally solved by martial contest but lethal combat between clan members is frowned upon. They are very utilitarian and would not approve of destroying something that they could still use. The most widespread of their kind, their young are more likely to be encountered by the average person, as they must travel when they come of age to earn their battle scars and bring back something to earn them a place in a stronghold. They have been known to fight alongside humans for short periods of time, but their inability to follow any authority that wasn't established by might of arms makes them ill suited to traditional command structures.

Despite all of this, they are seldom warlike unless pushed to defend themselves. A lot of their conflict is pageantry to make one clan or another look good for the druids. If the druids were on side, basically, the rest would toe the line.

Appearing in the Xiongu Steppes during the imperial consolidation period, they claimed to be fleeing a great cataclysm in Ayane that they refer to as the long night.

Not much, I know, but its just a general outline for now and subject to (probably quite drastic) change. Anybody with any extra ideas or comments please god chip in.

[Brokk]

Alright, so for a background, I'm thinking of running with them being natives of Ayane. Either random evolution caused by the magical backlash of the Changers' war or magically bred creatures intended as weapons that developed minds of their own over time.

They arrived in Eastern Tian Xia shortly after the end of the War, crossing the ice flows en masse, probably fleeing some cataclysm on the Northern Continent. They came into conflict with the rallying Tian Xian Empire on arrival and have an adversarial relationship with Imperial Authorities there.

Named for sounds common in their guttural speech, the three species, united under threat, quickly fragmented to forge their own paths. The Rams kept to the north, being suited to the harsher climes. The stallion tribes moved south to the plains. The Bulls sought out the solitude of the forests and jungles.

Edit: No, that doesn't work. I'm thinking there was some kind of accord with the Empire that lead to a kind of peace with certain conditions. Probably following a number of battles, the Emperor realised the futility of the conflict and that their troops were required elsewhere. They decided that as long as the creatures did not directly attack Imperial interests they would be left to their own devices, which suited the Dar. This détente has persisted ever since. The Empire basically used them as unwitting attack dogs, letting them run wild to pacify the threats and obstacles they couldn't deal with while they regrouped and re-established proper control.

Not much but its a starting point again. I'll try to elaborate once I can get a proper timeline established.

[Darrik]

Notes from Chat tentatively giving the Dar a location and briefly discussing their likely interactions with the Xiongnu of northern Tian Xia
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(08:17:49) Brokk: Aye, I still need to finish my race idea too.
(08:18:48) Brokk: Still, these are uncertain times, and opportunity knocks for those that are listening, I suppose.
(08:20:21) Darrik: Mods are more inclined to give a new race the go-ahead if there is specific RP plotted out for them, and it doesn't clash with existing setting
(08:21:25) Brokk: I know, that's the issue, they were going to be a savage, druidic race living in the north of Eyropa and Tian Xia with celtic style origins.
(08:21:45) Darrik: Probably not a fit for Tian Xia, then
(08:22:45) Brokk: Well, they had to come from somewhere, and if they came from North America across the Ice Flows , they'd have had to pass through the arctic lands.
(08:23:34) Darrik: That's the thing to keep in mind with world dev: don't try to just shoe-horn in an idea. Try to make it fit the setting in a way that feels natural and in line with what is already there
-
(08:57:31) Brokk: http://sureia.deviantart.com/art​/Bleak ... -311658647
(08:23:50) Brokk: Since Northern Tian Xia is currently a bit bare, there could be room for them there and conflict with the empire.
(08:24:35) Darrik: They'd more likely be in conflict with Xiongnu nomads. You can see some details regarding northern Tian Xia in the applications for Abagha and Bataar if you like
(08:24:50) Brokk: That's even better.
(08:25:33) Darrik: Abagha - http://www.tharshaddin.com/rp/vi​ewtopic.php?t=3405
(08:25:43) Darrik: Bataar - http://www.tharshaddin.com/rp/vi​ewtopic.php?f=4&t=3404
(08:26:41) Brokk: And thanks for humouring an idiot.
(08:28:00) Darrik: World Dev is something I try to encourage in my own strange way. I may sometimes come across as putting up obstacles - but that is only because I understand the admins. I went through a LOT when I created Tian Xia - even a google hangout meeting with all the admin to answer questions =p
(08:28:46) Darrik: I painted Tian Xia in broad strokes to allow the possibility of much more than what is written - but I do recommend trying to keep to the setting's aesthetic.
(08:29:39) Brokk: I understand completely, and I'm just being grateful for you being one of the few that makes me feel like I'm not beating my head off a wall.
(08:29:44) Darrik: Remember: the Empire has endured for over a thousand years. Anyone within its borders learns the language and obeys its rules - or is so far on the outskirts in such small numbers that they aren't considered worth the logistical effort
(08:30:08) Darrik: Hahaha, yeah, World Dev can feel like that sometimes. Takes patience and a willingness to compromise, I found
(08:31:22) Brokk: Aye, and a smart ruler knows that when people are looking outwards they tend to forget what is going on within. Enemies are useful for distracting people, and for dealing with stubborn problems deniably.
(08:33:51) Brokk: I dunno, I guess the scale of the empires here blows my tiny mind.
(08:34:12) Darrik: Aye. And if the Dar are kept in scope to the size of one of the larger Xiongnu nomad tribes (say, a few hundred to a thousand) they'd fit within that snug zone of 'Large enough to be able to raid surrounding tribes, but not such a threat that the tribes unite to remove a thorn from their side (like they try every few hundred years with the northern bastions of Imperial Tian Xia)
(08:34:37) Porter: (609248) logs into the Chat.
(08:34:50) Brokk: Well, the Dar spend most of their time warring with one another and competing for the favour of the druids.
(08:35:05) Darrik: Yeah. I don't know WHAT Frug was thinking when he painted half the landmass the green of Tian Xia
(08:35:39) Darrik: It was a logistical nightmare visualising the kind of empire which could maintain some semblance of control over such a large area without imploding :/
(08:35:57) Darrik: Which was probably why nobody had up until I tackled it over a period of months XD
(08:35:58) Brokk: They have more of an issue with people wantonly mining and tearing down forests, as those are sacred to them, so that would be the primary means of conflict.
(08:35:59) Porter: Katona logs into the Chat.
(08:36:26) (609248): I always figured you just batted your eyelashes at him
(08:37:31) Brokk: The way I see it, there could be a lot of gaps and internal security for them to keep on top of. A lot of clever maneuvering on the part of the magistrates and the imperial army.
(08:38:08) Darrik: Or the Xiongnu tribes, who have also spend hundreds of years mastering the art of mounted skirmishes
(08:39:01) Brokk: Indeed,I'm sure they'll happily beat the tar out of one another when the Tian Xians aren't around and even when they are.
(08:39:15) Darrik: Honestly, that icy area north of Gur'yeo is so low on the Imperial Bureaucracy's list of priorities that the Dar could eke out an existance there in conflict with some of the more remote Xiongnu tribes
(08:40:04) Brokk: Aye. There aren't many of them there and the rest moved west following their omens.
(08:40:24) Brokk: They only move when the druids say it is time.
(08:42:07) Brokk: So the others are busy jockying with the shifters in Northern Ciasse.
(08:42:41) Darrik: If they are that warlike, they probably wouldn't get to spread all throughout northern Tian Xia
(08:42:52) Darrik: They'd probably only get to move within that north eastern territory, if only due to containment by the more established Xiongnu tribes and their archers
(08:43:31) Darrik: I'd suggest having the Dar druids being intelligent to realise that all-out war would be the end of the Dar presence in Tian Xia
(08:43:40) Darrik: ~intelligent enough
(08:43:58) Brokk: Well, its less war than it is the will of the gods to them. The gods say they must go south and find the next holy site to protect, but people tend to attack them when they try.
(08:44:19) (609248): I am a banana
(08:44:20) Darrik: This is what I mean about clashing with established setting, though
(08:44:50) Darrik: This is where a spirit of compromise becomes necessary to be able to make an external idea fit in, y'know?
(08:45:03) Brokk: I know, but its not intended like that.
(08:45:53) (609248): I like rock type pokemon
(08:46:00) Darrik: So maybe the will of the gods says that the land they've taken is their holy land, and they plan to stay there forever - but the Xiongnu and Dar are perpetually contesting that
(08:46:45) Darrik: A self-perpetuating conflict based on different cultures and squabbles over rights to the land
(08:46:59) Brokk: And I'm sorry if that's how they come across. They are intelligent enough to bargain and they have been trying. They trade shaped wood and stone to the wealthy and shape their homes from the living earth, but that is the priests and those won't be playable. Indeed, that is what I had in mind.
(08:47:05) Darrik: Sometime in the distant past the Dar would have displaced a few tribes, creating that initial spark of conflict
(08:47:28) Darrik: Then yes, that's an easy fit
(08:47:31) Brokk: More than a few when they turned up, I'd say, and created a lot of bad blood.
(08:48:10) Brokk: You don't see many to the south beyond those that have lost their honour and are trying to re-earn it.
(08:48:50) Porter: Katona has been logged out (Timeout).
(08:48:57) Brokk: i have it written down somewhere. I may also just simplify it to the one race too, if that helps.
(08:48:59) Darrik: If they aren't constantly trying to migrate all over the place, and are instead trying to protect the land they claimed X generations ago (and maybe expand it a bit more because of slight population growth), then that is very easy to fit into north eastern Tian Xia, and gives RP potential for slice-of-life and action-oriented narratives for sure
(08:49:09) Darrik: Feel free to save this conversation as well
(08:51:17) Darrik: But yes, consider me on board with the Dar in the north-eastern Xiongnu Steppes

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(08:57:31) Brokk: http://sureia.deviantart.com/art​/Bleak ... -311658647
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(08:58:35) Brokk: Well, as far as the southern lords are concerned, anyone silly enough not to submit would be a savage. Thanks for that.
(08:59:03) Darrik: YOu are misunderstanding the relationships within Tian Xia
(08:59:12) Darrik: Deeply misunderstanding them
(08:59:30) Brokk: That's not surprising.
(08:59:37) Brokk:
(08:59:44) Brokk: It is a habit of mine.
(09:00:57) Darrik: Tian Xia is a benign dictatorship, yes, but that is hidden underneath the meritocracy of the Imperial Government. Everyone within Tian Xia's borders who speaks the language, obeys the laws, and provides the required Census records are considered a citizen of the empire.
(09:01:49) Brokk: But northern Tian Xia and somewhere in northern Ciasse between Zhaltev and Varinlund, I'd say.
(09:01:58) Darrik: The vast majority of the Xiongnu are true citizens in that sense, although for several tribes it rankles that they need to learn the Imperial language. However, the weight of tradition and precedence is in the favour of the Imperial bureacracy
(09:02:16) Darrik: I'm only discussing Tian Xia here
(09:02:21) Brokk: Okay,cool.
(09:02:22) Darrik: Keep focus please
(09:02:29) Brokk: Just thinking out loud.
(09:03:55) Darrik: If the Dar came via icebridges from Ayana, the only way they'd make it as far west to exit Tian Xia into the Thars would be to hug the northernmost edges of the empire where few live due to the extreme cold
(09:04:39) Brokk: And they'd survive due to not being human.
(09:04:44) Darrik: Now, please keep in mind that everything I say here is based on the assumption of 'The Dar having settled down permanently in the northeastern Xiongnu steppes'
(09:04:52) Darrik: If that assumption is false, stop me now
(09:04:58) Darrik: And save me a bunch of typing
(09:05:25) Brokk: Some of the clans have, yes. Others have moved west.
(09:05:42) Brokk: Whether they got anywhere is anyone's guess right now.
(09:05:51) Darrik: Well, those clans are an issue for somebody who isn't me =p
(09:06:03) Darrik: I think Ciasse is something Tov is working on
(09:06:30) Brokk: But they would be the only reliable source of information about Ayana, even if all they have are stories.
(09:06:42) Darrik: My responsibility is to help make sure the Dar can have a place in Tian Xia
(09:06:45) Darrik: If that makes sense
(09:07:07) Brokk: It does.
(09:07:24) Darrik: Cool, so forgive me if for now I completely ignore the Dar outside of Tian Xia =D
(09:08:15) Brokk: That's fine, dude.
(09:08:24) Darrik: So what I was trying to say before is that the Empire does not see the Xiongnu as savages in general
(09:08:52) Darrik: Of course, there will always be sneering individuals who might hold personal views in variance with the Empire's official position on the subject
(09:09:07) Brokk: Though some could be working as mercenaries in the south.
(09:10:48) Darrik: That would only work if they spoke the language and knew the laws - however, if you are happy for the Dar to have accepted a Tian Xian 'ambassador' in their lands (some poor bureacrat who pissed off the wrong person) then that wouldn't be an issue
(09:10:55) Porter: (609248) is now known as (PReTZel).
(09:11:02) Darrik: Any Dar would then have a setting-based reason to know the language and laws if they so chose
(09:11:50) Darrik: (I highly recommend that approach, if only because I'd like to play a fish-out-of-water Tian Xian academic 'promoted' to the wastelands as an 'ambassador' to the Dar)
(09:11:50) Brokk: The issue is a physical one more than a willingness. They might know the language, but they are physically unable to speak it, so people might mistake them for stupid.
(09:12:09) Darrik: They wouldn't get hired then
(09:12:20) Darrik: They wouldn't even make it through customs
(09:12:38) Brokk: So, yes, chances are they would accept an ambassador, but that's fair enough.
(09:12:53) Brokk: They can write it down, or someone could.
(09:13:35) Darrik: Might be one of those things where a compromise on your vision becomes necessary - the ability to communicate is kind of important for both RP and diplomacy.

And who could write anything down for them if they can't TELL them what to write?
(09:14:06) Porter: Vanyusha logs into the Chat.
(09:14:20) Darrik: They were made during the Changers War? Maybe whoever made them found it convenient to make them able to talk, y'know?
(09:14:25) Vanyusha: Halloo
(09:14:32) Darrik: NAV
(09:14:59) Brokk: I know, I know. Its not a massive thing so we could have it that its a preference thing then.
(09:15:15) Brokk: Its painful for them to speak the tongues of men.
(09:15:58) Darrik: Sure. But you realise you are deliberately making it harder for these guys to be RP'd outside of a Dar settlement, right?
(09:16:10) Brokk: Yep.
(09:16:46) Brokk: Honestly I could just drop it altogether, but I wouldn't be an idiot if I did.
(09:16:54) Darrik: Any particular reason why if you are wanting to make mercenary characters outside of Dar settlements? I mean, under those conditions, WHY would a Dar enter human lands at all?
(09:17:32) Darrik: You could just drop that restriction altogether. Make them hard to understand, sure, but not constantly silent or incomprehinsible
(09:17:44) Darrik: gods my spelling
(09:17:53) Darrik: ~incomprehensible
(09:18:00) Brokk: Aye, fuck it, why not.
(09:18:12) (PReTZel): if an aggressive goat headed warlike scary thing that doesn't understand language came onto my land, i would probably shoot it.
(09:18:35) Darrik: Aye. As would the Tian Xia border armies
(09:18:44) (PReTZel): ^
(09:18:59) Darrik: But a goatheaded citizen who hails the guard in the imperial tongue? No problem
(09:19:11) Brokk: And that's where the problems started. But yes, we could drop it.
(09:19:49) (PReTZel): well, i mean, even if they have to like mime stuff out and only know broken fragmented language, that's better than just no communication period
(09:20:05) Darrik: Because once world dev is approved, it is retrospectively assumed that the northern guards are aware of the existence of the Dar, even if rarely seen. Kind of a 'Never thought I'd be giving one of them paperwork in my lifetime. Going to tell my grandkids about this, I tell you' thing
(09:20:35) Darrik: I definitely recommend making them able to communicate with a decent amount of accuracy
(09:20:48) Brokk: No, I meant why not drop it.
(09:21:38) Darrik: Ah, as in 'you are dropping their inability to speak' - gotcha =p
(09:22:15) Brokk: They prefer to speak in their own tongue when they can, as they believe it to be the true language, but if they must speak a lesser tongue to deal with these godless southerners, so be it, but they will not like it.
(09:24:45) Darrik: Overall, I am liking the Dar presence in Tian Xia and can definitely see RP potential there. Even have a few ideas myself already.

[Brokk]

It is worth mentioning, by the way, and for reasons of posterity, that my idea was not that they cannot speak, but that they could only speak their own language and were willing to communicate, but had difficulty doing so. Either way, for simplicity's sake, we can safely scratch that idea, I think.

- Celtic influences, Ruled by druids, all resources (materials, positions, etc.) controlled and apportioned by them.
- Clans band together to defend the druids when they are threatened. Any Raids or ceremonial combat are to gain honour and favour with the druids, as the clans with the most favour gain the most resources, which they in turn are expected to put a portion of towards honouring the gods in gratitude.
- They don't mine, smelt or fell trees in the traditional sense, but the druids and adepts coax the stone, timber and metal from the earth with an odd magic that only they have mastered. Their quarries and mines, then, look more like natural temples than centers of industry, and their settlements look like they were formed by the land itself. There is a high demand for items and residences formed in such a manner by the wealthy.
- All their mages are Druids and Druids do not carry weapons, but ceremonially give those weapons to the gods when ordained.
- Each Clan Chief will have a Druid by his/her side to mete out the Gods' judgement and to oversee crafts, ceremonies and the telling of histories.

[Darrik]

(19:59:28) Brokk: Morning. I added some points to my comment in world dev and I had a question about their interactions with Tian Xia.
(19:59:46) Brokk: Or rather I have a question.
(19:59:59) Brokk: How are you?
(20:01:04) Darrik: Doing alright. But I'm guessing that wasn't the world dev question
(20:01:19) Brokk:
(20:02:56) Brokk: If the idea for their quarries, etc pans out, would the empire allow one such construction to exist within their borders for easier access to the shaped materials?
(20:03:30) Darrik: brb - 5m
(20:04:54) Brokk: A potential rp could centre around establishing such a place.
(20:04:57) Brokk: Kk
(20:05:17) Brokk: Or negotiations for such.
(20:07:29) Darrik: That's a question that kind of puts the cart before the horse.

A better question to start with is this: how long have the Dar been interacting with the Empire of Tian Xia, and how integrated into the Empire are they likely to be?
(20:08:09) Brokk: I'm going with quite some time.
(20:09:39) Brokk: This would be the first proper attempt to negotiate for access beyond their lands. Before this they traded and more or less stayed put.
(20:11:05) Darrik: So the answer is: not bloody likely.
(20:11:10) Brokk: All subject to change but generally speaking, I'm aiming for them to have been trying for the better part of a century or so
(20:11:28) Brokk: Fair enough.
(20:11:46) Darrik: However, that answer is based on the notion that this would be their first attempt
(20:12:36) Darrik: The reason why I am fixated on the issue of Imperial Integration is because that is what determines how accepted a particular merchant might be in the heart of the Empire
(20:12:48) Brokk: Well it would be the first time that the notion wasn't rejected out of hand, let's say, but was being talked about.
(20:13:02) Darrik: And the question is also: why would they want a quarry away from home?
(20:13:16) Darrik: A lot of what you ask seems out of character for what you have described of the Dar thus far
(20:14:43) Darrik: I think the first foundation stone to lay is to iron out some details regarding their home first, and day to day life, and how they view the Empire in general.

Once that foundation is laid, we can more properly look at ways to build on that to create interchanging links between them and the empire over their history.

I'd also recommend a timeline
(20:14:49) Brokk: they are drawn to soft spots in the seal, and the druids believe that each quarry is like a bandaid healing the world.
(20:15:35) Darrik: That argument isn't going to convince any bureaucrat
(20:15:46) Darrik: This might help with the timeline: http://www.tharshaddin.com/wiki/​History_of_Tian_Xia
(20:16:21) Brokk: Again, just another mad notion. If it makes more sense to drop it, then I can do that too.
(20:16:56) Darrik: You need to first establish what their baseline relation with the empire is before embarking on anything else, if that makes sense
(20:17:05) Darrik: Create the setting first, then look into RP possibilities
(20:18:13) Darrik: Sure, keep RP ideas in mind as you create the setting - little details that you can potentially hook into as the impetus for an rp - but focus on getting the basics down first
(20:19:20) Darrik: Once there's basic information down, it then becomes a lot easier to start working on the finer details - all the little interconnections between the Dar and Tian Xia which can be slipped into a timeline or general information re: culture
(20:20:03) Darrik: Right now, every time we talk I get a very different picture of what the Dar are doing, and it makes it hard to give a concrete answer to anything, if that makes sense?
(20:20:53) Brokk: I was running with the idea that they have relatively few full time warriors, saving the quarry guards who are given to the druids as tribute and the vassals of each clan king. The rest would be farmers and craftsmen who only take up arms when called to the clan's or their families' defence.
(20:21:53) Darrik: Might I suggest doing a rewrite of your first post in the Dar thread so that there's a better description of that?
(20:22:15) Brokk: It does, but mostly I'm trying to figure out if the raw idea has potential so that I can whittle it down or if I need to scrap it entirely
(20:23:41) Darrik: Here's the thing: I can think of a dozen different ways of integrating the Dar into the Empire without a problem - unless my ideas clash directly with your creative vision. And until I see what your current view of the Dar is, after our discussions thus far, I'm kind of at an impasse when it comes to sharing those ideas
(20:24:50) Brokk: I'm willing to listen to anything, reall, but I understand that I can seem difficult, so I respect your candour.
(20:26:44) Brokk: I don't see them as warlike unless pushed to defend themselves. A lot of their conflict is pageantry to make one clan or another look good for the druids. If the druids were on side, basically, the rest would toe the line.
(20:26:54) Porter: Katona logs into the Chat.
(20:26:57) Porter: Katona has been logged out (Timeout).
(20:26:57) Porter: Katona logs into the Chat.
(20:27:00) Porter: Katona logs out of the Chat.
(20:27:13) Brokk: If that makes sense at all?
(20:27:18) Darrik: Whereas your initial description still says 'very warlike' thus my suggestions that you amend that initial description
(20:27:58) Darrik: If the Dar are not overly aggressive, more defending their lands if needed, then that's one major obstacle out of the way
(20:29:57) Brokk: Also, in terms of time, I'd prefer that they appeared in the aftermath of the Changers war, so either during the warring races period or shortly after the establishment of the tianlong dynasty.
(20:30:48) Porter: (359157) logs into the Chat.
(20:30:52) Darrik: The Imperial Consolidation period, then
(20:31:03) Porter: (359157) is now known as (bob).
(20:31:36) Darrik: Alright, this next bit is going to take me a small while to type, so please be patient with me. While I do, I highly recommend reading this section (and the rest of that page too) http://www.tharshaddin.com/wiki/​The_Im ... n_Tian_Xia
(20:32:36) Brokk: So for a long time there would have been little interest from either side in understanding one another.
(20:35:53) Porter: (tom) has been logged out (Timeout).
(20:41:04) Porter: (bob) has been logged out (Timeout).
(20:41:21) Darrik: The Tianlong approach to empire is very similar to what the Persian Empire was in our history: let the locals rule themselves with regards to local matters, but those regions still fall under the governance of the Empire when it comes to taxation, census, language, and laws.

The Empire overseas three main geographical areas, each with its own peculiarities: the northern provinces of the Xiongnu Steppes, Imperial Tian Xia (the heartlands), and the southern provinces of Nanyue (which are limited to a number of heavily militarised city-states north of a rather nasty jungle)

If the Dar have been around since the start, then it's likely that all the heaviest and bloodiest conflicts were taken care of during the Imperial Consolidation Period. With that in mind, if the Dar have been trading with the Empire for a few hundred years, speaking the language and abiding by the laws, providing census data and a token amount of taxation, then they are already an integrated part of the empire: congratulations!

They'd likely have an assigned Imperial posting to ensure they have access to the Imperial Examinations and study curriculum, and a provincial magistrate to formally report on those local disputes which threaten to become more than local - and to provide a non-partisan third party for dispute negotiations

(As a sidenote: it's pretty expensive to collect taxes from Xiongnu, so the Empire normally attributes an annual Census and Taxation period for the northern provinces.)

IF we assume all the above to be true, then there are few issues at all.

But, nothing's that easy, so I'm going to open the floor to you so you can pick holes in my neat little scenario
(20:45:37) Brokk: Well, it would be the druids that the reps were dealing with, and since they tend to be the better educated they would have little issue with examinations, though in unofficial matters and their own ceremonies they would use their own tongue. Since the youngers have to travel to gain experience they'd probably be taught the language and the bare minimum they'd need to pass. Does that work? Otherwise it's fine.
(20:46:41) Brokk: Edited the first post by the way and dropped all Bar the Dar Ohk.
(20:46:48) Darrik: Aye. If you read Bataar's app like I suggested, you'd see that the Xiongnu nomads have similar circumstances, and some tribes still resent having to use the Imperial language
(20:47:15) Darrik: Remember, World Dev setting info is about the general baseline of circumstances, not the exceptions
(20:47:23) Darrik: The exceptions are where the fun RP happen
(20:47:34) Brokk: Yes. It's on my reading list, I have it bookmarked with the others you sent me.
(20:49:28) Brokk: That could make for more interspecies conflict between their own clans too, as some less flexible or else just the ones that live outside the bureaucracy resent the others for giving in
(20:49:47) Darrik: So, as citizens of Tian Xia the Dar would be free to travel the empire if they wished, and could afford it. They would be free to seek out business dealings if logistics from their remote location allowed for it. They'd probably find their principal source of trade would be one of the northern trade cities (set up specifically to trade with the Xiongnu/Dar/etc)
(20:50:20) Darrik: Aye - the same applies to the Xiongnu. In fact, it was just that kind of RP that Bataar and Abagha were to embark on when Corey went on indefinite hiatus
(20:51:48) Brokk: Well, I was thinking more go to hell or go to connaught, so the ones that wouldn't agree were told to go West and not trouble people again.
(20:53:12) Brokk: But yeah, that all sounds good.

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(20:54:55) Brokk: They regularly engage in Highland games style contests too to determine which clans are better, if that interests you at all.
(20:55:04) Darrik: Cool
(20:56:17) Darrik: I've added the chatlog into the world dev thread as well
(20:56:23) Brokk: The general idea is they'd travel when they were young, earn their scars, gain some experience and then go home and raise a family
(20:56:35) Darrik: I like that
(20:57:09) Darrik: Any citizen can apply for time spent in the Tian Xia military
(20:57:33) Darrik: It'd be interesting if the Dar did that sometimes, because it's something the Xiongnu in general refuse to out of principal
(20:57:47) Darrik: And might play into the Dar/Xiongnu tensions a bit as well
(20:58:47) Brokk: Family life starts with a marriage, where they are given a gift of a home and some livestock by their adopted clans, which they are expected to tend to and use to give back to the community and so forth
(20:59:48) Brokk: And yes, all the better if they could be grouped together and compete with one another.
(21:00:50) Brokk: Those who have lost their honour or have been exiled as criminals would likely sign on for life.
(21:00:52) Darrik: Aye. The Tianlong Generals would likely do that, given the difference in physique. A kind of crack infantry unit
(21:01:06) Darrik: Well, criminals wouldn't get into the army
(21:01:26) Brokk: Probably make good scouts too.
(21:01:46) Darrik: If a Dar is flagged as a criminal and leaves their territory, that information would be reported via the Magistrates
(21:02:08) Darrik: If they didn't turn themselves in for appropriate punishment for the crime they'd committed, they'd be hunted down
(21:02:18) Brokk: Well, criminal is a broad term, but I mean as a character origin,one might lie about that to escape justice etc.
(21:02:25) Darrik: Probably by the Jinyiwei if deemed to difficult for regular magistrates to handle
(21:03:20) Brokk: Especially since the punishment is usually exile for a period of penance or achieving some goal set by the druids.
(21:03:50) Darrik: http://www.tharshaddin.com/wiki/​The_Laws_of_Tian_Xia
(21:04:02) Brokk: For murder and such the punishment is death though so any assistance would be appreciated.
(21:04:02) Darrik: The Dar would have to abide by those on top of their own laws.
(21:04:36) Darrik: Particularly those leaving their own home villages and towns
(21:04:56) Darrik: So it wouldn't be a case of 'You're a criminal, sod off elsewhere now'
(21:05:10) Brokk: So there would be emphasis on ensuring that such matters did not come to imperial attention if possible.
(21:05:19) Darrik: If they were wanting to 'exile' a criminal, they'd have to turn the criminal over to the Imperial Law system
(21:06:11) Darrik: You might want to take some time to describe those internal Dar laws in more detail. I get the impression you and I are working off different understandings of criminal here
(21:06:29) Brokk: Okay. Though they could give him a head start and say he/she 'escaped custody'
(21:07:02) Darrik: That kind of duplicity would have been stamped out hundreds of years ago through sanctions and boycotts
(21:07:41) Brokk: Well, most matters are dealt with within the clans
(21:07:46) Darrik: Dar don't blend into crowds easily, so 'escaping into the general populace of Tian Xia' just wouldn't work, you know?
(21:08:09) Darrik: So what you'll need to do first is figure out which crimes call for 'exile'
(21:08:25) Darrik: Then we need to see if any of those crimes are punishable/enforcable under Imperial Law
(21:08:52) Darrik: That would then determine what kind of existing agreement would likely have been arranged between the two, hundreds of years prior to present day
(21:09:09) Brokk: Yes, but the point is that what happens to them is their own problem after that. Exile means no longer part of a clan. No family.You're no longer a person and no clan hold will receive you.
(21:09:51) Darrik: If they break a law in Dar Territory, it is still breaking the law within Imperial territory
(21:10:16) Brokk: I know.
(21:10:25) Darrik: But we are debating on thin air here: please work out which crimes call for exile
(21:10:40) Darrik: Then we can actually discuss them, rather than theorising, y'know?
(21:11:19) Brokk: indeed. Not murder, obviously those people would be hunted down and beheaded.
(21:12:30) Brokk: Stealing from the clan would be, so you would be exiled until you could replace the items stolen, but again that could only be the tradition.
(21:13:15) Brokk: Even if they served time under Tian Xian law they would still have that debt to repay.
(21:13:36) Darrik: Please read this: http://www.tharshaddin.com/wiki/​The_Laws_of_Tian_Xia
(21:13:46) Darrik: There is no 'serving of time'
(21:14:22) Brokk: So say, they would submit to imperial justice and once released would have to fulfil that social obligation. Again, thinking aloud.

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(21:23:22) Darrik: To make life easier: the crimes which would make it impossible for a Dar to join the military are any which result in branding/tattooing
(21:23:43) Darrik: The Empire doesn't have a personal investment in how the Dar handle petty crimes
(21:23:52) Darrik: It's the major crimes the Magistrate keeps tabs on
(21:24:10) Darrik: Tian Xia doesn't want Dar murderers or rapists roaming free as you can imagine
(21:24:35) Darrik: And serial offenders for the pettier crimes get tattooed or branded according to the crime
(21:24:57) Darrik: Again, see that link I gave you
(21:25:01) Brokk: Then barring murder and anything serious they'd likely beat them senseless and give them the equivalent of don't come back til you've learned your lesson
(21:26:02) Brokk: So rapist, murderers, serial thieves would likely be killed Unless imperial law required otherwise.
(21:26:12) Darrik: Hmm. And if that has been going on for a few centuries, chances are there'd be a tacit understanding between the military recruitment office, the Dar magistrate, and the Dar druids

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(21:27:24) Darrik: The tattoos/brands are identical throughout the empire
(21:27:55) Darrik: So that any official or citizen can recognise a criminal and be wary of their intentions
(21:28:53) Brokk: that works, though depending on what they did the Dar may request a druid be present or that the head be returned to them. I meant because they may not be readily visible on their skin is all.
(21:29:56) Darrik: That would depend on how far away it occurred.
(21:30:51) Darrik: The northern military would have an ongoing arrangement and understanding. Anywhere south of the Xiongnu steppes, not so much
(21:30:56) Brokk: They understand that. But the main thing is that they are seen to ask.
(21:32:15) Brokk: The head is the soul to them, so murderers should have to pay theirs in return the one they took.
(21:32:50) Brokk: Not always possible, but as long as they can say they tried that's enough.
(21:34:18) Darrik: Ja. At this point though we're at risk of getting bogged down in minutiae
(21:34:30) Darrik: So I again recommend going back to the broader strokes on the canvas
(21:35:28) Brokk: Yes, but generally they will abide by their obligations under imperial law with little complaint and then administer their own laws afterwards.
(21:35:42) Brokk: That work?
(21:36:31) Brokk: Imperial officials will be informed as to the status of and circumstances behind exiles and
(21:36:59) Brokk: Such to ensure proper understanding.
(21:37:29) Darrik: Honestly, unless you are actually planning to make a criminal character, a lot of this is unnecessary complication.
(21:37:56) Brokk: It is, but it's all worth knowing in case shit happens
(21:38:13) Darrik: It can be boiled down to the broad stroke of 'The Dar abide by Imperial Law, but also have their own cultural practices as follows: Z,Y,Z
(21:38:44) Darrik: The general approach the mods recommend is 'If it happens, work it out then, in case the RP points to an even more interesting solution'
(21:38:48) Brokk: Fair enough.
(21:39:30) Darrik: That's why I kept the Law section in Tian Xia very broad in scope, rather than say 'X strikes for X crime' and so forth
(21:40:09) Darrik: So long as the extremes are catered for to set the basic parameters, that's all that matters

[Brokk]

Tentative Timeline:

2236-2230PW - First Dar settlers encountered by Xiongu Nomads, having arrived across the ice flows from Northern Ayane. These 'monsters' were immediately set upon by the various tribes and, though fearsome, they were believed to have been pushed back. Further, tentative incursions made over the next six years, each violently repulsed.

2230-2190PW - Mass immigration of Dar settlers across the ice flows and attempts by nomadic tribes t to fight them off are overcome through sheer weight of numbers. Forcing the nomads back, the Dar begin to establish settlements along the northern coasts of the steppes, long thought to be uninhabitable and slowly begin to push further West.

2190-2176 PW - due to increasing fear of the monsters, many nomad tribes band together in a concerted effort to stop the Dar's seemingly unstoppable advance West. A brutal, bloody and unforgiving conflict ensues between both sides for the better part of twenty-five years with neither side willing to back down. Despite opposition, Several clans manage to get through the Xiongu blockade and push further West into Thar Shaddin. Conflict officially concludes at the Battle of Horn and hoof with the intervention of the Tianlong Imperial Army and both sides are forced to withdraw to defend themselves. Pang's Stand built as a permanent military garrison to oversee the region.

2176-1890PW - continued expansion by the Tianlong Empire force both the Dar and the nomads onto the back foot, however, concerted defence and continued conflict within the empire itself prevents serious loss of territory for a time, but as the provinces were gradually brought to heel the pressure began to increase on the Dar. The Imperial Army began to mass for a final offensive, but the start of the Nian War drew their attention elsewhere. Dar Clans take advantage of the chaos to expand once more, causing fresh conflicts with Nomadic tribes over territory. This expansion came to an abrupt halt upon the cessation of the Nian War when the Imperial Army returned in force and the Dar were given a choice: submit to Imperial Authority or be destroyed. Faced with this choice, the Clans fractured, with half opting to accept the empire's terms and the remaining half splitting to travel West or back East across the ice. Pang's Stand named as regional headquarters for the Imperial bureaucracy.

1890PW-present - Dar Clans officially recognised as citizens of the Empire and trade opens with Pang's Stand to satisfy tax requirement, beginning a period of lasting, if disgruntled, peace, although the nomadic tribes remain hostile towards them. In the years since, the Dar have lived more or less in harmony with the rest of the Empire, keeping to their own lands and not getting involved in the wars of others. While the younger Dar still travel south to earn their scars, they remain a rare sight for most people, which suits them just fine.

[Brokk]

(In no particular order)

Social Standing and Classes
Druid Class
Warrior Aristocracy
Intellectual Class (poets, craftsmen, etc)
Everyone Else

Identity and accomplishments are marked through ritual scarring, tattooing and body mutilation. When criminals are being executed or exiled, they are ceremonially flayed of their clan scarrings to mark them as soulless. All Dar-Ohk bear the mark of their birth clan.

Young Dar Ohk are considered wards of their Clan until they come of age, whereupon they are sent out into the world to gain some experience and make something of themselves. When they come back, they advertise themselves to Clans in hopes of gaining a place in Dar-Ohk Society. If they fail to gain a place, they must wait until the next moot and try again.

The various clans regularly intermingle for highland games style displays of strength and skill, presided over by the druids and the Chieftans of each Clan. It is at these, traditionally, that inter Clan disputes are addressed formally and punishments meted out. It is also at these gatherings that young Dar-Ohk who have earned their scars advertise themselves to the clans and marriages are declared.

Those who have the most honour will receive the most resources from the druids and in turn will create the grandest tributes to their Gods.