Succubi/ Incubi [Race] [POSSIBILITY]

Old world development posts that have been reviewed and incorporated or put aside.
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Succubi/ Incubi [Race] [POSSIBILITY]

Post by Analisia Moonbright » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:22 pm

Demon-Kin
Succubus/Incubus


Origin: This is not a race born, it is a race created. Succubi and Incubi are created from lust of lesser beings. While they are based on the Astral plane along with other demons, they are spawned from sinful lust of beings based on the physical plane; whether it be adultery, rape, or other acts based off this carnal sin. Because of their beginnings, they are instinctually creatures of pleasure and chaos.

Lifespan: Being Demons, Succubi and Incubi are technically immortal. However once they come onto the physical plane, they can be banished back to the Astral plane. If a warrior, or anyone for that matter, strikes them down, they are banished for a full century from the physical plane. Once banished they are unable to touch or affect the physical plane, unless summoned by their banisher.

Social Attributes: Succubi and Incubi are seducers. They are built to bring people in, to have them trust them. However, they are also creatures of chaos, and as such have little control over their own emotions. They only feel the shallowest of emotions; when they are happy, it is fleeting and simple, they do not despair and cannot cry, anger can turn into rage but passes as quickly as it comes. The only thing they can truly feel is lust or hunger.

Succubi and Incubi are fed either by the consummation of blood, or through the act of sexual intercourse. Succubi can have children, but their children shall only be watered down versions of the pure demon. Any seed taken by a Succubi will lead to a pregnancy. Incubi can spawn children off mortal beings, but no mortal being has been known to survive such a pregnancy.

While Succubi and Incubi prefer the company of their own kind, they are rarely known to be in groups. They live solitary lives, spreading their chaos as they can. Since they are Astral beings, they can only walk the physical plane if summoned. Due to this, it is rare that a Succubus/Incubus are in the same area at the same time. If this occurrence does happen, the two will likely stick together, hunt together, and fight together.

Succubi and Incubi are not natural fighters, preferring to seduce or enthrall their prey. They do have demon strength, but it is often only infinitesimally stronger than that of a trained human warrior.

Succubi/Incubi are bound to their summoner, if the summoning is done properly. And especially if the Summoner knows the True Name of the being, s/he will have control over their actions. But if a summoning is done incorrectly then the succubi/ incubi can betray it's master. This is the most usual way for one of the beings to be set free upon the physical plane.

Physical Attributes: Beautiful to a fault, they have almost angelic features. All Succubi/Incubi have only one true form (to be explained later). This form has wings, though it depends on the individual whether or not these work; a tail; fangs that protrude just past their lips, and all their teeth are sharpened; and horns, style also depends upon the individual. Their eye colors change based on emotions, and their base color usually matches personality.

Ex. A succubus that is more flirty than anything will have pink- purple eyes; an incubus that is nasty and has a talent for irony/sarcasm might have sickly green eyes; an incubus that is kind might have grey eyes.

These eyes also glow, allowing any whom look at their face to see that they are demons.

Innate Powers/abilities:

Transformation: though all succubi/incubi have only one true form, their demon form, they are able to suppress most of this to attempt at a more human appearance. They no longer have their tail, wings, or fangs; but their eyes are still demon-like in all ways. In this human appearance, everything is dulled, including their other powers. Instead of being fiercely, inhumanly beautiful, they are passing pretty. Instead of commanding a person’s mind, they are only able to sway it slightly. Any contact with moonlight instantly dissipates these affects, forcing the demon back into its true form.

Puppetry: This power only works fully on a person with a weak will. It gives the succubus/ incubus the ability to sway or control the actions or thoughts of another being. In their human-like form, it will only sway the being if they are open to suggestion. For example, a simpleton will willingly follow the suggestions given, but a magician or trained warrior can shake off the effects with almost no notice of it.
A common version of puppetry is the Siren Song, which is the activation of this magic through singing. For those weaker willed Succubi/ Incubi, this is the only way to activate their Puppetry.

Glamour: If activated, this magic will make the user instantly more attractive, catching the attention of those around him/her. It is a power easily thwarted, for it disappears the moment the user makes physical contact with anyone or anything.

Telepathy: While available to all of the demon-kin, for succubi/incubi this is a learned ability. For those that do not take the time to learn it, they cannot use it.

Transportation: Again, a learned ability. And only available when the demon is in its true form.

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Analisia Moonbright » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:31 pm

Please please give me feedback on this. This is the first time I haven't played on assumptions about this race and tried to actually map it all out. I have taken as much as I know about the race (due to playing them on other sites, reading about them, and some research when I created my first Succubi as a charrie) if you feel that my explanations are lacking or don't make sense let me know so I can fix it.

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by PenitusVox » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:08 am

I can see some interesting possibilities from this, such as Assassination by Impregnation. How they are brought into the world is kinda confusing though. They can be summoned, born, and summoned by a banisher?
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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Analisia Moonbright » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:47 am

They can only be summoned by a magic user/ cleric. However if they were banished they cannot be summoned by anyone except the banisher. If a warrior banishes them, and he asks a mage/cleric type to help summon them, this also counts.

However their half-demon spawn are not born of the abyss, or astral plane, they are born of the physical plane. So a half-succubus or half-incubus does not have to be summoned.

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Katona » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:44 am

This looks good but you could go into more detail. You might need to include more about their physical appearance as well as explaining to what extent their powers can be used? For example, how far can they teleport? How or where do they learn to use their teleportation and telepathy?

Why exactly do they have to wait a century specifically to return to the physical plane after being banished? Is it connected to the ritual that brings them into the world in the first place?

You say that they don't show or feel much emotion, so why would their eye colour change depending on their emotion if they don't seem to feel emotions often or in much variation? How much do their personalities differ? From how you describe them, it would seem their personalities shouldn't differ much at all, or that they should all have "base colours" representing lust/hunger. Is there a reason for these colours or why they show?

You might want to explain more about their half-demon children, like what they look like and what their abilities are.

A very important point to make regarding this idea in relation to the setting of Thar Shaddin is that we don't, for the most part, allow anything based on religion. Characters can have their religious beliefs but they're only beliefs and speculation, not part of the actual setting.

The whole idea of "sinning" has a lot to do with morals based in religion, basically "going against God's will", so you're going to have to give a better explanation of how or why these creatures were created and what their purpose is, if anything.

"Demons" also aren't any specific race in this setting. It's more just a term to describe a variety of unrelated types of beings that make it over from the astral plane to the physical, so to assume all demons are immortal or that they all share any particular traits is a stretch and you might want to slightly rethink some of those aspects of the concept.

Personally, I think it would be more interesting if the demons' true forms were horrifying and they could only achieve "beauty" by transformation.

And also, I'm curious about what kind of plot ideas you were thinking of these demons being used for? I mean, you have the obvious idea of them seducing/killing people, but what other things make them interesting additions to a storyline?

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Analisia Moonbright » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:47 am

There was alot in that post, so I am just gonna go down it numerically.

1. Other than they are all beautiful, and have specific traits (tail, fangs, horns, wings, glowy eyes) in their demon form, there is no set look for succubi or incubi. It varies, unlike some other demons such as glabrazu.


2. Powers such as teleportation depends on how powerful the individual sucubi/incubi, what they were taught and how. And they learn these in much the same way as a mage would. Books, tutors/mentors, some just have the natural talent. There is no limit, some may be able to teleport across the continent, while others are only able to manage a few feet. It is all about the discipline, knowledge, and strength of the individual.

3. Mostly, the banishment period is something agreed upon by DND players, so I was simply dipping into my knowledge of that. Whilst I am certain there is a specific reason, I do not know it. Though we can say that it has to do with the summoning ritual.

4. I never said that they do not show or feel much. I said that they feel shallow emotions. For instance, lust or infatuation and never love; a quick temper that can explode, but will never touch actual vengeful rage. They can feel just the same as any other being, they are just a little more like an ADHD bi-polar person with multiple personality syndrome. They go through emotions quickly, switching through them in moments.

5. Incubi/ Succubi are as varied as any other creature, as I tried to explain with the base colours. There are those that feel anger more than anything, and tend to be quicker to bite. Those that are smarter and more cunning. Those that are more playful and enjoy the chase and tease. The reason they have the base colours is like showing what is most often felt within them.

6. Their children have the same, though to a lesser extent, abilities as their parents. As I said they are simply lessers of the true demons. However how these traits show up is no different then human children. They might inherit a strong ability to read people, but only be passing pretty. They could inherit the demon traits, look like their parent's demon side, but have almost no power. It's all a matter of chance.

7. Sinning is not just going against "God's will", it is going against what is morally correct. For example, rape is a crime, not only in most religions, but also most countries. Rape and Murder are considered morally wrong by most societies. Succubi/ Incubi are born through Lust, whether it is shown in rape, incest, or simply pent up sexual frustration. Not by any specific "gods" law.

8. And most groups agree that Demons are immortal. So I had assumed this as true here as well. Especially since Vampires are immortal.

9. As for your personally thinking that it would be more interesting if the demon aspect were terrifying versus beautiful. A) Would you not be rather terrified if this person who looked great also came with a set of bat wings, horns, fangs that protruded from their mouth, and a tail that was whipping around behind them came at you?
B) The purpose of a succubi/incubi is to seduce. Sort of difficult to do that if people are running and screaming from them at first look. They leave that to other Demons.
C) This is my interpretation of varied sources worth of information on Succubi/Incubi. All of them agreed that Succubi/Incubi were beautiful and that is how I wish to present them.

10. As far as plot, they are demons that, yes they do seduce and run around killing people, but are controlled by mages who summon them, unless they get free. Imagine a mage who has this beautiful demon under his thumb. Now imagine him using that demon to assassinate people who stood in his way for power. Or how the guards of Marn would try dealing with such a demon. They are around to create chaos, have alot of fun, and if they are trapped do a mages bidding.

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Morveya Aris » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:20 pm

I'd have to read over in a little deeper detail, but overall I think this is a quite good re- interpretation of a classic demon type.

Albeit the things Katona points out have to be taken into consideration. Personally, I really appreciate the consistency the moderators strive for here. It is a big part of what makes it feel like a coherent world, not just a hodgepodge of fantasy and horror elements.

But, I like the subtlety and sensuality of this entity. There is a place for big, ugly scaries too, to be sure. But this is just a different sort of evil.

I have been considering that, probably, in our story thread the characters would run afoul (eventually, much later on) of an undead occult practitioner, (thus my earlier interest in the liche) who is trafficing with demon kind. Or, more specifically "demon like" entities in this setting. (Nightmarish beings of the Astral) And that the protagonists might need advice from a similar kind of entity, in order to sort of fight fire with fire.

Moreover, I intend to evolve Morveya as something of a banisher, in the long term. (as a branch off her dis-spelling ability) I could see a succubus or incubus introducing all sorts of interesting complications and unease into her life, if she had to sort of ally with one as "the lesser evil", in trying to cope with the real antagonist.

Er, just thinking out loud. Not sure this is the thread for it. But personally speaking, I would enjoy seeing something like this being in play.
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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Analisia Moonbright » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:02 am

Even just thinking out loud is appreciated :) I have always loved the intricacy of Succubi, and the way that they are their very own brand of evil. And that that evil is far from the norm.

And I definitely like your ideas for possibly tying them into the overall plot, or your charrie's plot.

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Katona » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:32 am

Okay, thanks for responding to my questions. For the most part, I was just curious and wanted to see the idea in more detail, but I still want to make sure that one point about their creation is clear:

Morals - the idea of objective good and bad - aren't actually real things; they aren't rules that any universe follows. So, I mean, I would assume that you intended them to be formed as a result of the beliefs/thoughts/feelings of the sentient beings who hold to these morals?

And I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing, but I just need to point out that assuming people with bipolar disorder, ADHD or dissociative identity disorder only feel shallow emotions or that their emotions change constantly could be offensive to people with any of those disorders who might read this as it's not necessarily true, so that's just something to be aware of.

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Analisia Moonbright » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:42 am

I wasn't trying to say that people with those disorders only feel shallow emotions. Actually they usually feel their emotions quite strongly and deeply.

I was just suggesting that succubi/incubi are all of those things mixed up into one package.

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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Kitan » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:23 am

I'm concerned they won't be malevolent enough.

We are dark fantasy, and while this might just be me I'd be rather miffed if their usual end goal wasn't horrible, or at least extremely petty, selfish and cruel. I like to think of succubi as strange, yet intelligent creatures who may wear our forms but will never share our goals or best interests.

They are demons. As such, succubi require some sort of inborn need to see other people suffer. To know that they held power over others and abused it. To hurt. Otherwise we'll find a bunch of sympathetic succubi running around giving us a heroic dark elf situation: there are more people playing rebels than there are playing actual demons.

A good way to fix this would be, Like Katona mentioned, to give them hideous, monsterous true forms rather than being just a human with wings and horns. Something anorexic, flabby skinned and shallow eyed. That way, anyone playing a succubus would be forced to either play it straight or really deal with the emotional impact being a monster. It's certainly better than taking the "omg cute succubus wants to make human friends" route. It also gives people who want to play classic succubus something more to work with for horror scenes.

As for your points about Succubi looking nice to humans, that only showed up recently. They are not unlike the modern interpretation of fairies: vastly different and much more friendly looking nowadays. Mythologically and traditionally they all looked like horrific abominations which had to rely on illusions or shapeshifting to seduce and decieve. You also mentioned people would still be terrified if a human with horns and wings was around, but this is a fantasy setting. Shifters alone could have any number of those aspects, since they are all just animal traits. Quite frankly, succubus presented in such a manner are more endearing than terrifying. People cosplay such ones all the time, and I've noticed you don't often cosplay to be terrifying. (except for halloween, obviously) And if people love these watered-down succubus in the real world, how nonchalant would they be in a fantasy setting?

But basically, succubi being terrifying acts as a failsafe to keep people from playing a steryotypical cute monster girl.
Last edited by Kitan on Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Morveya Aris » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:16 pm

Those are good points, Kitan.

What I caught on though, was the bit that - "The only thing they can truly feel is lust or hunger."

And that they must feed on blood. This somewhat conveys you are not dealing with a sweetheart creature. My initial read gave me an impression of more of an amoral mind f--ker. (Which is what I'd personally be seeking, if we incorporated anything like this into Family Ties. ) Which would scruple at few things to fill its needs, and serve its own agendas.

Like anything, it could be played very badly as a player character. In particular, yes, the cute monster that just wants acceptance and friends is trite. And cartoon like. I don't see anything like that passing muster with the mods, though.
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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Frug » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:43 am

Joining in late to the discussion after reading everything over.

It's good that you're using this forum to get feedback and brainstorm on ideas. I'm glad to see people engaging in the discussion. I also agree with Katona's suggestions. They're the same things I would have said.

I see "glabrezu" mentioned earlier. I want to clarify that we don't have those, or anything else native to D&D on Pal Tahrenor. If matching D&D is the reason for giving them a banishment period, I'm going to ask for it to be taken out.

I'm not a fan of eyes that change color with mood. It's an overused trait among RP characters and I've been exposed to it too much over the years. If succubi get it, mark my words, they'll be the only ones.

Morality is a subjective thing. Katona was right to point out that "sinning" is ambiguous and open to much debate. That word is intentionally avoided in the canon.

(Evil isn't a thing, it's a descriptive term. You can use objective terms to describe actions, thoughts or behaviors, such as aggressive, violent, sexual, or selfish, without directly referring to sins. Talking about sin inevitably invites people to conclude that certain behaviors have a property of "evilness" to them. Terminology like "sinful acts" also implies a disregard for the motivations behind actions. Some people (for example many religious people) evaluate actions in isolation from intent or motivation, while others (like me) think it's the internal motivation behind action that matters. Still others (like philosophy 101 students) will argue that there is always internal justification for an action and that labels like "sinful" or "evil" are completely vacuous if you pull them apart.)

tl;dr: I'm not ok with systems that assume there is universal consensus on the valuation of an action. Any judgement of an action has to come from somewhere. Lust is fine, sin is not unless it's clearly defined. I bring this up not just because of this thread on succubi, but because it comes up frequently. I do use the word "evil" for simplicity's sake when talking about types of people, but not as an objective position.

Most 'demons' are probably immortal in the sense that they don't die of old age. I don't see why a creature whose physical reality is the manifestation of an astral being needs to age at all. Some demons surely do spawn into and out of existence over time, for example a seasonal sprite, so they wouldn't be immortal at all. I'd never agree that demons are immortal in that they can't be killed. Surely there are a variety of ways to accomplish that.

The term "demon" is ill defined. I understand it to mean the scary (read: evil) creatures of the astral realm. It's a derogatory term, not a specific type of thing.
Would you not be rather terrified if this person who looked great also came with a set of bat wings, horns, fangs that protruded from their mouth, and a tail that was whipping around behind them came at you?
Actually that sounds hot and more like it's designed to be sexy than scary. I'm surely not alone... That hentai with the demon lady had those features... But I digress...

My personal opinion is that I think it's a tad more interesting if they're hideous in their natural form, since that natural form could be a reflection of a repulsive inner nature. When I hear about the natural form of a creature in the astral realm, I think of a representation of that creature's personality... But I don't feel particularly strongly about that. They might as well seduce creatures in the astral realm when they're not doing it in the real world. I don't know what else they would do in their spare time. Play cards or something. Eat chocolate and pout about not getting that one boy. Anyway it's my personal opinion but not something I would insist on. We can always make a different, hideous type of succubus if someone else wants to use one of those.
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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Stella » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:26 am

The term "demon" is ill defined. I understand it to mean the scary (read: evil) creatures of the astral realm. It's a derogatory term, not a specific type of thing.
I agree with what Katona and Frug said, but I would like to point out that we do have a couple "demons" lurking around Thar right now. While the word 'demon' does not refer to anything specific, the few people who have used it as an actual race have characters who are entities that invade other peoples' bodies. Navarre would be my best example. Now, that doesn't mean all demons invade bodies, I just wanted to throw it out there that we do have a few "defined" demons.

The word "demon" usually just means "monster" in a setting like this.
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Re: Succubi/ Incubi [Race]

Post by Niabi » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:59 am

I realize it's been a few months since this discussion started but I thought I'd weigh in and give my two cents.

I agree with what Frug and Katona have said about "sinning." As I see it the word is used as a derogatory term for anything that someone or a group of someones finds to conflict with their own sense of morals (usually but not always related to some kind of religious belief). While there are some acts that many people would agree upon as being morally wrong, there are always going to be some that disagree and as such I don't like to throw around blanket terms.

In this discussion lust has been thrown around as being sinful, I personally have no moral problems with lust and don't understand the negative connotations some people have attributed with it.
Most 'demons' are probably immortal in the sense that they don't die of old age. I don't see why a creature whose physical reality is the manifestation of an astral being needs to age at all. Some demons surely do spawn into and out of existence over time, for example a seasonal sprite, so they wouldn't be immortal at all. I'd never agree that demons are immortal in that they can't be killed. Surely there are a variety of ways to accomplish that.


I have no problem with creatures that can't die of old age but I will never accept a creature that is incapable of dying. That is a god, not a creature. On that note, we don't have gods because they are no fun to play or play with and we don't want to go around claiming any theology is true and that others are false.
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The term "demon" is ill defined. I understand it to mean the scary (read: evil) creatures of the astral realm. It's a derogatory term, not a specific type of thing.
I agree with what Katona and Frug said, but I would like to point out that we do have a couple "demons" lurking around Thar right now. While the word 'demon' does not refer to anything specific, the few people who have used it as an actual race have characters who are entities that invade other peoples' bodies. Navarre would be my best example. Now, that doesn't mean all demons invade bodies, I just wanted to throw it out there that we do have a few "defined" demons.

The word "demon" usually just means "monster" in a setting like this.
I'm one of the people who regularly uses the word "demon." When I use it, I use it to describe horrible creatures born out of the drug-induced hallucinations of a mentally ill young man.

When I've talked to overs over the years I've always mentioned that when using the word think not of any possible religious ideas but instead use it to classify countless unknown creatures from the Astral Plane.
I'm not a fan of eyes that change color with mood. It's an overused trait among RP characters and I've been exposed to it too much over the years. If succubi get it, mark my words, they'll be the only ones.
I agree. Though a few of us have experimented with some magical drugs that have been known to change eye colors.

I also agree that if they have a true form that it should be this hideously ugly creature. I'd like to think that they could use that as a reason/excuse as to why they must disguise themselves to seduce humans. Maybe their true self is so revolting that they are ashamed of their own appearance and they feel they must hide what they truly are, making themselves appear to be extremely attractive to gain the attention of others. Maybe it is their vanity that prevents them from breeding with their own kind and that is why they try to trick humans with this false appearance and seduction.
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